Posts
I've always said that one of my goals was exposing the hypocrisy that infests UESP. How about this sequence?
Anon: What the FUCK useless kind of shit is that about???
Kitkat: Don't do that! Discuss on talk page
Anon: I already DID discuss on the talk page. Give me ONE FUCKING REASON why this shit should stay????
(plus more)
Meanwhile on the talk page, the anon expanded thusly:
Anon: What asshole decided that including full biographies of NPCs on place pages was a good idea?
Now.... he's right, yes? (and I'm assuming it's a "he") So admins and patrollers should step in?
No.
To cut a long story short, Krusty blocked the anon. True, he could have been more polite but he was right.
Yes.
Legoless brought it up again a couple of days later, then other editors piled on, and eventually we end up with.... this! The same version for which the anon was banned.
Well done UESP. Thank you for justifying me in my assault on your hypocisy.
Thursday 28 June 2012
Wednesday 27 June 2012
It Comes to One Man
As promised, a little more on the recent activity of TheRealLurlock.
Most of his recent edits have been about the Tamriel Rebuilt (TR) project. In case you don't know, it's a huge project to create the whole of Morrowind province using the Morrowind engine. This might sound silly to those of you who haven't played the game, but TES III: Morrowind only featured the island of Vvardenfell. You can see what that means in this image. When complete, the TR project will contain about five times as much land as the original Morrowind game. The other thing to say is that the quality of the added lands is really, really high. The first two releases made by the team were great but the latest one - Sacred East - is mind-blowing because of the increase in quality that the admins have required.
What does this have to do with Lurlock?
When UESP decided to document TR there was a bit of an argument between Lurlock and rpeh about how it should be done. I can't be bothered with diffs, but you can see it here. Lurlock wanted a whole new namespace while rpeh and Queen of Trolls wanted to avoid namespace explosion and to use sub-namespaces instead. The latter solution was used, but despite the claims of the people on that side, things reached the point where QoT's wiki extensions had to take special account of the extra sub-NSs. Anyway...
The project grew, with rpeh taking the lead with lots of help from TR insiders like Gez and Theviking, to become a part of the site that took up a lot of space without generating lots of views.
Whenever TR released a new map, rpeh would set up RoBoT to create stubs for NPCs, quests, places and so on, then begin the process of filling them in. The team working on those pages did a decent job, and although there are (as of right now) 280 stubs, that compares favourably to the 271 Daggerfall stubs and the shocking 1,387 Skyrim stubs.
So instead of a competent group of editors filling in a set of bot-created pages, we have... Lurlock.
No, I don't think this is going to end well either.
Most of his recent edits have been about the Tamriel Rebuilt (TR) project. In case you don't know, it's a huge project to create the whole of Morrowind province using the Morrowind engine. This might sound silly to those of you who haven't played the game, but TES III: Morrowind only featured the island of Vvardenfell. You can see what that means in this image. When complete, the TR project will contain about five times as much land as the original Morrowind game. The other thing to say is that the quality of the added lands is really, really high. The first two releases made by the team were great but the latest one - Sacred East - is mind-blowing because of the increase in quality that the admins have required.
What does this have to do with Lurlock?
When UESP decided to document TR there was a bit of an argument between Lurlock and rpeh about how it should be done. I can't be bothered with diffs, but you can see it here. Lurlock wanted a whole new namespace while rpeh and Queen of Trolls wanted to avoid namespace explosion and to use sub-namespaces instead. The latter solution was used, but despite the claims of the people on that side, things reached the point where QoT's wiki extensions had to take special account of the extra sub-NSs. Anyway...
The project grew, with rpeh taking the lead with lots of help from TR insiders like Gez and Theviking, to become a part of the site that took up a lot of space without generating lots of views.
Whenever TR released a new map, rpeh would set up RoBoT to create stubs for NPCs, quests, places and so on, then begin the process of filling them in. The team working on those pages did a decent job, and although there are (as of right now) 280 stubs, that compares favourably to the 271 Daggerfall stubs and the shocking 1,387 Skyrim stubs.
So instead of a competent group of editors filling in a set of bot-created pages, we have... Lurlock.
No, I don't think this is going to end well either.
Where Have All The Admins Gone?
If you want proof that UESP is dying, look no further than the contributions of its most senior editors.
The Administrators list claims there are five active admins, two "semi-active" ones, plus six inactive. Oh, plus Daveh, but since he fucks up everything he touches these days let's not even bother with him.
Dwarfmp: 21 edits in the last month
Eshe: Many edits, but most of them (almost all) are block notifications for the spam accounts than infest every wiki right now
Krusty: Quite a few edits, but nowhere near his usual output
Legoless: Same as Krusty
Nephele: Three in the last month, and nothing since the end of May
Of the "semi-active" ones:
Lonely and Desperate: A few edits, several of which fix his own fuckups and the rest of which are blocks
TheRealLurlock: Also a few edits, although I'm going to address that in a later post.
Even the Whining Little Bitch has stopped fucking things up with his ham-fisted attempts to write templates. Several other patrollers who used to be active have dropped out of sight
This huge drop in activity is despite Krusty creating a really premature Skyrim Quest Redesign Project, that has so far attracted the usual good editors (err... that's only Krusty and SerCenKing these days), plus other wankers who only want the project ribbon but won't ever do anything useful.
I predicted this back in April.
It's sad that it took so little time before I was proved right.
The Administrators list claims there are five active admins, two "semi-active" ones, plus six inactive. Oh, plus Daveh, but since he fucks up everything he touches these days let's not even bother with him.
Dwarfmp: 21 edits in the last month
Eshe: Many edits, but most of them (almost all) are block notifications for the spam accounts than infest every wiki right now
Krusty: Quite a few edits, but nowhere near his usual output
Legoless: Same as Krusty
Nephele: Three in the last month, and nothing since the end of May
Of the "semi-active" ones:
Lonely and Desperate: A few edits, several of which fix his own fuckups and the rest of which are blocks
TheRealLurlock: Also a few edits, although I'm going to address that in a later post.
Even the Whining Little Bitch has stopped fucking things up with his ham-fisted attempts to write templates. Several other patrollers who used to be active have dropped out of sight
This huge drop in activity is despite Krusty creating a really premature Skyrim Quest Redesign Project, that has so far attracted the usual good editors (err... that's only Krusty and SerCenKing these days), plus other wankers who only want the project ribbon but won't ever do anything useful.
I predicted this back in April.
It's sad that it took so little time before I was proved right.
Saturday 16 June 2012
Au Revoir, Elliot
A little while ago I received an email from an unexpected source that contained a discussion between (inter alia) Elliot the Obnoxious and Thick, Jak Atackka, Snowmane and Kitkat. It seems Snowmane passed the conversation to some admins, and it ended up with me. I'm going to post the whole exchange, including some stuff that went on in a private chat, because it reveals (or confirms) several things.
1) Elliot is a deeply unpleasant person.
2) Dwarfmp is an ineffectual admin.
3) Hopefully Elliot has gone for good this time.
4) If this is what IRC is like these days, I'm glad I stopped lurking.
The delay is because I wanted to clear it with a few people to make sure they were okay with it being published. It's also because I was away and then lazy, but I've done it in the end.
So here's the exchange. Enjoy.
[6:04pm] Elliot: Unblock
[6:04pm] Elliot: Right fucking now
[6:04pm] Elliot: You better fucking unblock me
[6:04pm] Snowmane: Elliot. You're disrupting the channel. I am within my rights, and you'll remain blocked until you cool off.
[6:04pm] Elliot: Unblock me now
[6:05pm] Elliot: I swear to fucking god
[6:05pm] Elliot: UNBLOCK ME
[6:05pm] Snowmane: No. You're banned until you can prove to me that you're calm. Until then, you're a disruption, and you're banned.
[6:05pm] Elliot: Fuck you
[6:05pm] Elliot: FUCK YOU
[6:05pm] Elliot: A blatant abuse of whatever powers were mistakingly giving to you
[Sorry, but I don't see how using a ban to end an argument that would have persisted was a misuse of powers.]
[6:06pm] Elliot: Unblock me
[6:06pm] Elliot: Can you not read?
[6:07pm] Elliot: u
[6:07pm] Elliot: n
[6:07pm] Elliot: b
[6:07pm] Elliot: l
[6:07pm] Elliot: o
[6:07pm] Elliot: c
[6:07pm] Elliot: k
[6:07pm] Elliot: m
[6:07pm] Elliot: e
[6:07pm] Elliot: r
[6:07pm] Elliot: i
[6:07pm] Elliot: g
[6:07pm] Elliot: h
[6:07pm] Elliot: t
[6:07pm] Elliot: n
[6:07pm] Elliot: o
[6:08pm] Elliot: w
[6:08pm] Snowmane: I did read it. And, no. I am NOT unbanning you, so spanning a PM isn't helping.
[6:08pm] Elliot: Unblock me!
[6:08pm] Elliot: You are NOT permitted to block based on information in a PM
[6:08pm] Elliot: SO you are in a clear violation of rules
[6:10pm] Elliot: Okay
[6:10pm] Snowmane: It's in the Public chat now, and even without that, one was coming anyways, because you're throwing around unprovable accusations for the sake of arguing, after being warned by myself and Dwarf..
[6:10pm] Elliot: What's in the public chat?
[6:10pm] Elliot: Did you QUOTE me?
[6:10pm] Elliot: Are you fucking serious?
[6:11pm] Elliot: I AM NOT THROWING AROUD UNPROVABLE ACCUSATIONS
[6:11pm] Elliot: HOW ABOUT YOU FUCKING BLOCK KITKAT
[6:11pm] Elliot: UNLBOCK ME OR I WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY IN
[6:11pm] Snowmane: I didn't quote you. I just said you were being rude, and I wasn't going to unban you.
[6:11pm] Elliot: I WILL find a way in.
[6:11pm] Snowmane: Ok. Whatever. I am sure you'll be banned again.
[6:12pm] Snowmane: If not by me, then by someone else for evading the ban
[6:12pm] Elliot: It's nice for you use to the tools I taught you
[6:12pm] Elliot: Now UNBAN me
[6:13pm] Snowmane: You're banned for at least the evening to cool off. If you're polite tomorrow, I will be more than happy to give you another chance.
[6:13pm] Elliot: Tomorrow
[6:13pm] Elliot: Are you fucking kidding me?
[6:13pm] Elliot: I would advise you to revoke this mistake you're seriously about to make
[6:13pm] Snowmane: I am dead serious. Unless one of the admins changes it or tells me to revoke it, that is how it is.
[6:13pm] Snowmane: Is that a threat?
[6:14pm] Elliot: Is everything a threat with you?
[6:14pm] Elliot: How about people grow some damn balls and actually DISCUSS things
[6:15pm] Elliot: It's your decision.
[6:15pm] Elliot: You will have to live with it now.
[6:16pm] Elliot disconnected from the server.
1) Elliot is a deeply unpleasant person.
2) Dwarfmp is an ineffectual admin.
3) Hopefully Elliot has gone for good this time.
4) If this is what IRC is like these days, I'm glad I stopped lurking.
The delay is because I wanted to clear it with a few people to make sure they were okay with it being published. It's also because I was away and then lazy, but I've done it in the end.
So here's the exchange. Enjoy.
(ALL PUBLIC)
[Complaining about someone before mentioning Rpeh. Sadly, I lost the record of what he was saying]
[5:07pm] Elliot: If you want to bring up something from 2009, let's bring up Calliope
[5:08pm] Snowmane: lol
[5:08pm] Snowmane: Elliot, is this personal to you?
[5:08pm] General_Crespin: I never got into Oblivion. I've been wanting to for a while, but now that I've started
Skyrim, I dunno how it will feel.
[5:08pm] Kitkat|Away: Snowmane, the title of Captain Obvious belongs to Kiz - quit trying to steal it
[5:09pm] Kitkat|Away is now known as Kitkat.
[5:10pm] Snowmane: It sounds like it. And, in my honest to God opinion, you're sounding like what you wanted overthrown. You're complaining about SerCen's opinion and him having a voice because it disagrees with your's, yet you want ME to post an opinion, since it agrees with your own. You're generally a great guy, but you need to sit on the bench for a while, I think.
[5:11pm] Elliot: I don't care if what he posts about rpeh
[5:11pm] Elliot: He brought me into it
[5:11pm] Elliot: Of course I'm going to be pissed
[5:12pm] Snowmane: Kat, I am MAJOR Obvious. I am a higher rank. At least in the United States military I am
[5:12pm] Snowmane: I don't know about the Irish or English militaries
[5:12pm] Elliot: Kitkat, was that comment aimed at me?
[5:13pm] Kitkat: No, it was quite obviously aimed at Snowmane - it even has his name in it
[5:13pm] Snowmane: What did she say about you?
[5:14pm] Elliot: Why would he be Captain Obvious?
[5:14pm] Elchzard_ joined the chat room.
[5:14pm] Snowmane: I am MAJOR Obvious, guys
[5:15pm] You are now known as Major_Obvious.
[5:15pm] Kitkat: 22:08 Snowmane Elliot, is this personal to you?
[5:15pm] Kitkat: I thought that was glaringly obvious
[5:15pm] Elliot: So it was aimed at me
[5:15pm] Elliot: I should kick you for such a comment
[5:16pm] Major_Obvious: Elliot, you aren't going to kick Kitkat.
[5:16pm] Kitkat: No, it was aimed at Snowmane - as I said.
[5:16pm] Elliot: It was about me.
[5:17pm] You are now known as Snowmane.
[5:17pm] Kitkat: And? The accusations on your user page are *about* me. Should we discuss those?
[5:17pm] mxk101 joined the chat room.
[5:17pm] mxk101 was promoted to half-operator by ChanServ.
[5:17pm] Elchzard left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
[5:17pm] Snowmane: Both of you, just drop it, please.
[5:17pm] Elliot: Those are not accusations
[5:18pm] Snowmane: I don't want a big argument flaring up
[5:18pm] Kitkat: Yes, they were. I found them offensive.
[5:19pm] Elliot: You help split the wiki. Plain and simple.
[5:19pm] Snowmane: Big whoop, Elliot, you were indirectly referenced when she agreed with my question. Grow up! She never meant to offend you, when she said that joking comment to me. It isn't like she called you a good for nothing troll or anything serious.
[5:19pm] Snowmane: Elliot, stop it!
[5:22pm] Elliot: Why should I?
[5:22pm] Snowmane: You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
[5:22pm] Kitkat: Well, I promised RH70 I'd try and talk to people as opposed to about them - I think we've made some real progress, Elliot
[5:22pm] Jak_Atackka joined the chat room.
[5:22pm] Jak_Atackka: Hello!
[5:23pm] Kitkat: Hiya, Jak
[5:23pm] Snowmane: She said a joking comment to ME and, then you started suggesting she was trying to insult you, and now you both are at each other's throats.
[5:23pm] Snowmane: Hey, Jak
[5:23pm] Elliot: She did try to insult me
[5:23pm] Elliot: Because she's getting more "revenge"
[5:23pm] Jak_Atackka: What'd she say?
[5:23pm] Elliot: For what who the hell knows
[5:24pm] Snowmane: Elliot, just drop it. You both are wrong in this instance, so arguing won't help.
[5:24pm] Kitkat: Revenge? I'm not interested in revenge. That's you, desperate to destroy rpeh's block appeal even if it violates policy.
[5:25pm] Dwarfmp: do I have to remind you of this?:
[5:25pm] Dwarfmp: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/215835_205393296149952_145722295450386_621767_2925001_n.jpg
[Random funny picture, because Dwarfmp was under the impression that he could get everyone to stop arguing with a picture. ][5:25pm] Elliot: How did I violate policy again?
[5:25pm] Snowmane: Kitkat, Elliot, BOTH OF YOU DROP IT!
[5:25pm] Snowmane: Take it to a PM if you HAVE to argue so bafly.
[5:25pm] Snowmane: badly
[5:26pm] Elliot: No, people need to hear this as well
[5:26pm] Elliot: read, hear, w.e.
[5:26pm] Kitkat: Talking is important, right?
[5:26pm] Snowmane: Elliot, I am officially warning you to stop. You are arguing for the sake of arguing, and it is starting to be disruptive, IMO.
[5:26pm] Elliot: Snowmane, stop it.
[5:27pm] Elliot: I'm not breaking any rules.
[5:27pm] Elliot: This is a WIKI IRC room
[5:27pm] Snowmane: Not technically, but this arguing is not solving anything.
[5:27pm] Elliot: Ergo, discussing things from the wiki.
[5:27pm] Snowmane: Dwarfmp: What is your opinion?
[5:29pm] Dwarfmp: my opinion is that you shouldn't argue
[5:29pm] Snowmane: Elliot, you're hardly discussing things wiki business. You and Kitkat are both throwing around disruptive accusations.
[5:29pm] Dwarfmp: unless you like getting annoyed that is
[5:30pm] Elliot: Then leave?
[5:30pm] Dwarfmp: no, unless YOU like getting annoyed
[5:30pm] Dwarfmp: I'm not even reading this
[5:30pm] Kitkat: Me neither - lolz
[5:30pm] Snowmane: Why should *I* leave so that you can have a meaningless argument? If you insist on an argument, a PM is a much more appropriate venue.
[5:31pm] General_Crespin: Same.
[5:33pm] • Kitkat throws Elliot a Snickers bar
[Kitkat wants it made clear that this (A reference to the commercial where people act like divas) was actually meant to be insulting, and the only thing insulting she said. Of course, Elliot misses the reference.][5:42pm] Elliot: Kitkat, please don't ever accuse me of something again.
[5:42pm] Elliot: Thanks.
[5:43pm] Kitkat: Ditto. And unlink my name on your user page? Thanks..
[5:44pm] Elliot: No
[Great Elliot logic. He can demand Kitkat never accuses him of anything, yet he still wants to accuse Kitkat of things he can't prove.]
[5:44pm] Kitkat: How about if I say please?
[5:45pm] Elliot: How about if you drop it?
[5:45pm] Jak_Atackka: Well you do accuse her of splitting the wiki, the least you could do is unlink her name.
[5:45pm] Elliot: She couldn't prove her accusation
[5:46pm] Snowmane: Elliot, be fair. You can hardly ask her to never accuse you of anything, while accusing her of splitting the wiki apart.
[5:46pm] Elliot: I can prove mine.
[5:46pm] Elliot: I'm not really accusing
[5:46pm] Elliot: It's more of a statement
[5:46pm] Kitkat: No, you can't! Prove it!
[5:47pm] You are now known as ES|dinner.
[5:47pm] Elliot: "In fact, much the same as Krusty, the abruptness of this RfA caused me to run screaming from the
wiki (and the IRC), hell bent on never coming back."
[5:47pm] Elliot: All because one person was nominated for an RfA?
[5:47pm] Elliot: "Obviously, I don't feel I can bring myself to support this, for all of the reasons Krusty, Kiz and rpeh have stated above."
[5:47pm] Kitkat: Yep - the "abruptness" as in I was shocked and it was unexpected
[5:48pm] Kitkat: Yep - still not seeing how I split the wiki in half. I just expressed an opinion that you don't agree
with.
[5:48pm] Elliot: "I'd also like to address the point that there are no "cliques" on the wiki. That's completely untrue."
[5:48pm] Elliot: Winner ^
[5:49pm] Elliot: "So I'd like remind everyone that this isn't a popularity contest, that this is about picking the best
person for the job, and not simply the one who has the most friends in high places."
[5:50pm] Elliot: THAT would be splitting.
[5:50pm] Kitkat: You're still not getting it! That's not "splitting", that's "voting"
[5:51pm] Elliot: I'm pretty sure I understand things like this a little more than you.
[5:51pm] Jak_Atackka: I think that counts as a personal insult, Elliot
[5:51pm] Kitkat: You've clearly illustrated that you don't.
[5:51pm] Jak_Atackka: And that too, Kitkat
[5:51pm] Elliot: Says the 14 year old
[5:52pm] Jak_Atackka: Ageism
[5:52pm] Kitkat: Yep - personal attack much?
[5:52pm] Dwarfmp: you're just angry you're losing an argument with a 14 year old
[Dwarfmp was right. He lost to a 14 year old girl. :)][5:52pm] Elliot: Not really...
[5:53pm] Elliot: [5:48pm] Elliot: "I'd also like to address the point that there are no "cliques" on the wiki. That's completely untrue."
[5:54pm] Elliot: How can I make it any more obvious?
[5:54pm] Kitkat: Yes, you said that already. But I'm allowed to express how I feel. And I feel that there are cliques on the wiki.
[5:54pm] Elliot: Kitkat, you accused me of trying to prohibit rpeh from appealing the block.
[5:54pm] Elliot: I ask you for proof, and you failed to provide any.
[5:55pm] Jak_Atackka: Which demonstrates a logical fallacy, not a conspiracy.
[5:56pm] Kitkat: I refused to provide any, for reasons which I stated. As you know, Elliot.
[5:56pm] You are now known as Snowmane.
[5:56pm] Elliot: You refuse because you CAN'T!
[5:57pm] Kitkat: I know I can't - Mibbits will close >.>
[5:57pm] Elliot: Yeah, that's it!
[5:57pm] Kitkat: And then you said, Elliot? You said I was "turning into a little rpeh. How cute."
[5:57pm] Snowmane: You guys just waited until I left to argue some more? Can you both please end it already?
[5:57pm] Elliot: The four people who opposed the RfA ALL basically said there are camps on the wiki.
[5:58pm] Elliot: You four are the only ones who have said that.
[5:58pm] Jak_Atackka: Or take it to PM?
[5:58pm] Elliot: THAT is splitting the wiki.
[5:58pm] Elchzard_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
[5:58pm] Kitkat: That is voting.
[5:58pm] Snowmane: Elliot, Kitkat, both of you drop it! I am tired of all the arguing!
[5:58pm] Elliot: Very good
[5:58pm] Elliot: It's the OPINIONS that are a detriment.
[5:59pm] Kitkat: Opinions are allowed!!
[5:59pm] Snowmane: Only Elliot's opinions and those of his allies are allowed, Kitkat.
[5:59pm] Elliot: Snowmane
[5:59pm] Elliot: shut up
[5:59pm] Elliot: Opinions are allowed.
[5:59pm] Elliot: But as I said, they are what is splitting the wiki.
[6:00pm] Dwarfmp: she just stated it was already split
[6:00pm] Dwarfmp: that's not splitting
[6:00pm] Elliot: It's not split.
[6:00pm] Elliot: Well, besides those 4
[6:00pm] Kitkat: It is too - you just said I split it!
[6:00pm] Kitkat: Make up your mind!
[6:01pm] Snowmane: Elliot, Kitkat, considered yourselves officially on your last warnings. This is ridiculous, and
you guys are just attacking each other for no gain.
[6:01pm] Elliot: Snowmane
[6:01pm] Elliot: Just stop.
[6:01pm] Elliot: You are just fanning whatever flames there are.
[6:01pm] Snowmane: You stop, Elliot. I am trying to maintain order. Grow up!
[6:01pm] Elliot: Order?
[6:01pm] Elliot: We are not allowed to argue?
[6:02pm] Dwarfmp: no
[6:02pm] Dwarfmp: you're disrupting the chat
[6:02pm] Jak_Atackka: Take it to PM....
[6:02pm] Elliot: I'm disrupting nothing!
[6:02pm] Kitkat: We tried that Jak - it didn't work
[6:02pm] Elliot: There's nothing to disrupt!
[6:02pm] Snowmane: Elliot, you're a great guy, but I am one step from kicking you myself.
[6:02pm] Snowmane: This is ridiculous.
[6:03pm] Elliot: I would advise to avoid that.
[6:03pm] Snowmane: Or?
[6:03pm] Snowmane: Sounds like a threat, and Rpeh....
[A reference to Rpeh's logic that he was above the law. Elliot is sadly unaware of the similarities they share.]
[6:03pm] You set a ban on *!*@ChatSpike-c0c80140.iplsin.sbcglobal.net.
[6:03pm] You kicked Elliot from the chat room. (Snowmane)
[With Elliot's banning, the conversation ends. Kitkat never got banned, because she is normally a sweet person to everyone, so I was willing to let her stay, because she is never a disruption.]
[Complaining about someone before mentioning Rpeh. Sadly, I lost the record of what he was saying]
[5:07pm] Elliot: If you want to bring up something from 2009, let's bring up Calliope
[5:08pm] Snowmane: lol
[5:08pm] Snowmane: Elliot, is this personal to you?
[5:08pm] General_Crespin: I never got into Oblivion. I've been wanting to for a while, but now that I've started
Skyrim, I dunno how it will feel.
[5:08pm] Kitkat|Away: Snowmane, the title of Captain Obvious belongs to Kiz - quit trying to steal it
[5:09pm] Kitkat|Away is now known as Kitkat.
[5:10pm] Snowmane: It sounds like it. And, in my honest to God opinion, you're sounding like what you wanted overthrown. You're complaining about SerCen's opinion and him having a voice because it disagrees with your's, yet you want ME to post an opinion, since it agrees with your own. You're generally a great guy, but you need to sit on the bench for a while, I think.
[5:11pm] Elliot: I don't care if what he posts about rpeh
[5:11pm] Elliot: He brought me into it
[5:11pm] Elliot: Of course I'm going to be pissed
[5:12pm] Snowmane: Kat, I am MAJOR Obvious. I am a higher rank. At least in the United States military I am
[5:12pm] Snowmane: I don't know about the Irish or English militaries
[5:12pm] Elliot: Kitkat, was that comment aimed at me?
[5:13pm] Kitkat: No, it was quite obviously aimed at Snowmane - it even has his name in it
[5:13pm] Snowmane: What did she say about you?
[5:14pm] Elliot: Why would he be Captain Obvious?
[5:14pm] Elchzard_ joined the chat room.
[5:14pm] Snowmane: I am MAJOR Obvious, guys
[5:15pm] You are now known as Major_Obvious.
[5:15pm] Kitkat: 22:08 Snowmane Elliot, is this personal to you?
[5:15pm] Kitkat: I thought that was glaringly obvious
[5:15pm] Elliot: So it was aimed at me
[5:15pm] Elliot: I should kick you for such a comment
[5:16pm] Major_Obvious: Elliot, you aren't going to kick Kitkat.
[5:16pm] Kitkat: No, it was aimed at Snowmane - as I said.
[5:16pm] Elliot: It was about me.
[5:17pm] You are now known as Snowmane.
[5:17pm] Kitkat: And? The accusations on your user page are *about* me. Should we discuss those?
[5:17pm] mxk101 joined the chat room.
[5:17pm] mxk101 was promoted to half-operator by ChanServ.
[5:17pm] Elchzard left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
[5:17pm] Snowmane: Both of you, just drop it, please.
[5:17pm] Elliot: Those are not accusations
[5:18pm] Snowmane: I don't want a big argument flaring up
[5:18pm] Kitkat: Yes, they were. I found them offensive.
[5:19pm] Elliot: You help split the wiki. Plain and simple.
[5:19pm] Snowmane: Big whoop, Elliot, you were indirectly referenced when she agreed with my question. Grow up! She never meant to offend you, when she said that joking comment to me. It isn't like she called you a good for nothing troll or anything serious.
[5:19pm] Snowmane: Elliot, stop it!
[5:22pm] Elliot: Why should I?
[5:22pm] Snowmane: You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
[5:22pm] Kitkat: Well, I promised RH70 I'd try and talk to people as opposed to about them - I think we've made some real progress, Elliot
[5:22pm] Jak_Atackka joined the chat room.
[5:22pm] Jak_Atackka: Hello!
[5:23pm] Kitkat: Hiya, Jak
[5:23pm] Snowmane: She said a joking comment to ME and, then you started suggesting she was trying to insult you, and now you both are at each other's throats.
[5:23pm] Snowmane: Hey, Jak
[5:23pm] Elliot: She did try to insult me
[5:23pm] Elliot: Because she's getting more "revenge"
[5:23pm] Jak_Atackka: What'd she say?
[5:23pm] Elliot: For what who the hell knows
[5:24pm] Snowmane: Elliot, just drop it. You both are wrong in this instance, so arguing won't help.
[5:24pm] Kitkat: Revenge? I'm not interested in revenge. That's you, desperate to destroy rpeh's block appeal even if it violates policy.
[5:25pm] Dwarfmp: do I have to remind you of this?:
[5:25pm] Dwarfmp: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/215835_205393296149952_145722295450386_621767_2925001_n.jpg
[Random funny picture, because Dwarfmp was under the impression that he could get everyone to stop arguing with a picture. ][5:25pm] Elliot: How did I violate policy again?
[5:25pm] Snowmane: Kitkat, Elliot, BOTH OF YOU DROP IT!
[5:25pm] Snowmane: Take it to a PM if you HAVE to argue so bafly.
[5:25pm] Snowmane: badly
[5:26pm] Elliot: No, people need to hear this as well
[5:26pm] Elliot: read, hear, w.e.
[5:26pm] Kitkat: Talking is important, right?
[5:26pm] Snowmane: Elliot, I am officially warning you to stop. You are arguing for the sake of arguing, and it is starting to be disruptive, IMO.
[5:26pm] Elliot: Snowmane, stop it.
[5:27pm] Elliot: I'm not breaking any rules.
[5:27pm] Elliot: This is a WIKI IRC room
[5:27pm] Snowmane: Not technically, but this arguing is not solving anything.
[5:27pm] Elliot: Ergo, discussing things from the wiki.
[5:27pm] Snowmane: Dwarfmp: What is your opinion?
[5:29pm] Dwarfmp: my opinion is that you shouldn't argue
[5:29pm] Snowmane: Elliot, you're hardly discussing things wiki business. You and Kitkat are both throwing around disruptive accusations.
[5:29pm] Dwarfmp: unless you like getting annoyed that is
[5:30pm] Elliot: Then leave?
[5:30pm] Dwarfmp: no, unless YOU like getting annoyed
[5:30pm] Dwarfmp: I'm not even reading this
[5:30pm] Kitkat: Me neither - lolz
[5:30pm] Snowmane: Why should *I* leave so that you can have a meaningless argument? If you insist on an argument, a PM is a much more appropriate venue.
[5:31pm] General_Crespin: Same.
[5:33pm] • Kitkat throws Elliot a Snickers bar
[Kitkat wants it made clear that this (A reference to the commercial where people act like divas) was actually meant to be insulting, and the only thing insulting she said. Of course, Elliot misses the reference.][5:42pm] Elliot: Kitkat, please don't ever accuse me of something again.
[5:42pm] Elliot: Thanks.
[5:43pm] Kitkat: Ditto. And unlink my name on your user page? Thanks..
[5:44pm] Elliot: No
[Great Elliot logic. He can demand Kitkat never accuses him of anything, yet he still wants to accuse Kitkat of things he can't prove.]
[5:44pm] Kitkat: How about if I say please?
[5:45pm] Elliot: How about if you drop it?
[5:45pm] Jak_Atackka: Well you do accuse her of splitting the wiki, the least you could do is unlink her name.
[5:45pm] Elliot: She couldn't prove her accusation
[5:46pm] Snowmane: Elliot, be fair. You can hardly ask her to never accuse you of anything, while accusing her of splitting the wiki apart.
[5:46pm] Elliot: I can prove mine.
[5:46pm] Elliot: I'm not really accusing
[5:46pm] Elliot: It's more of a statement
[5:46pm] Kitkat: No, you can't! Prove it!
[5:47pm] You are now known as ES|dinner.
[5:47pm] Elliot: "In fact, much the same as Krusty, the abruptness of this RfA caused me to run screaming from the
wiki (and the IRC), hell bent on never coming back."
[5:47pm] Elliot: All because one person was nominated for an RfA?
[5:47pm] Elliot: "Obviously, I don't feel I can bring myself to support this, for all of the reasons Krusty, Kiz and rpeh have stated above."
[5:47pm] Kitkat: Yep - the "abruptness" as in I was shocked and it was unexpected
[5:48pm] Kitkat: Yep - still not seeing how I split the wiki in half. I just expressed an opinion that you don't agree
with.
[5:48pm] Elliot: "I'd also like to address the point that there are no "cliques" on the wiki. That's completely untrue."
[5:48pm] Elliot: Winner ^
[5:49pm] Elliot: "So I'd like remind everyone that this isn't a popularity contest, that this is about picking the best
person for the job, and not simply the one who has the most friends in high places."
[5:50pm] Elliot: THAT would be splitting.
[5:50pm] Kitkat: You're still not getting it! That's not "splitting", that's "voting"
[5:51pm] Elliot: I'm pretty sure I understand things like this a little more than you.
[5:51pm] Jak_Atackka: I think that counts as a personal insult, Elliot
[5:51pm] Kitkat: You've clearly illustrated that you don't.
[5:51pm] Jak_Atackka: And that too, Kitkat
[5:51pm] Elliot: Says the 14 year old
[5:52pm] Jak_Atackka: Ageism
[5:52pm] Kitkat: Yep - personal attack much?
[5:52pm] Dwarfmp: you're just angry you're losing an argument with a 14 year old
[Dwarfmp was right. He lost to a 14 year old girl. :)][5:52pm] Elliot: Not really...
[5:53pm] Elliot: [5:48pm] Elliot: "I'd also like to address the point that there are no "cliques" on the wiki. That's completely untrue."
[5:54pm] Elliot: How can I make it any more obvious?
[5:54pm] Kitkat: Yes, you said that already. But I'm allowed to express how I feel. And I feel that there are cliques on the wiki.
[5:54pm] Elliot: Kitkat, you accused me of trying to prohibit rpeh from appealing the block.
[5:54pm] Elliot: I ask you for proof, and you failed to provide any.
[5:55pm] Jak_Atackka: Which demonstrates a logical fallacy, not a conspiracy.
[5:56pm] Kitkat: I refused to provide any, for reasons which I stated. As you know, Elliot.
[5:56pm] You are now known as Snowmane.
[5:56pm] Elliot: You refuse because you CAN'T!
[5:57pm] Kitkat: I know I can't - Mibbits will close >.>
[5:57pm] Elliot: Yeah, that's it!
[5:57pm] Kitkat: And then you said, Elliot? You said I was "turning into a little rpeh. How cute."
[5:57pm] Snowmane: You guys just waited until I left to argue some more? Can you both please end it already?
[5:57pm] Elliot: The four people who opposed the RfA ALL basically said there are camps on the wiki.
[5:58pm] Elliot: You four are the only ones who have said that.
[5:58pm] Jak_Atackka: Or take it to PM?
[5:58pm] Elliot: THAT is splitting the wiki.
[5:58pm] Elchzard_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
[5:58pm] Kitkat: That is voting.
[5:58pm] Snowmane: Elliot, Kitkat, both of you drop it! I am tired of all the arguing!
[5:58pm] Elliot: Very good
[5:58pm] Elliot: It's the OPINIONS that are a detriment.
[5:59pm] Kitkat: Opinions are allowed!!
[5:59pm] Snowmane: Only Elliot's opinions and those of his allies are allowed, Kitkat.
[5:59pm] Elliot: Snowmane
[5:59pm] Elliot: shut up
[5:59pm] Elliot: Opinions are allowed.
[5:59pm] Elliot: But as I said, they are what is splitting the wiki.
[6:00pm] Dwarfmp: she just stated it was already split
[6:00pm] Dwarfmp: that's not splitting
[6:00pm] Elliot: It's not split.
[6:00pm] Elliot: Well, besides those 4
[6:00pm] Kitkat: It is too - you just said I split it!
[6:00pm] Kitkat: Make up your mind!
[6:01pm] Snowmane: Elliot, Kitkat, considered yourselves officially on your last warnings. This is ridiculous, and
you guys are just attacking each other for no gain.
[6:01pm] Elliot: Snowmane
[6:01pm] Elliot: Just stop.
[6:01pm] Elliot: You are just fanning whatever flames there are.
[6:01pm] Snowmane: You stop, Elliot. I am trying to maintain order. Grow up!
[6:01pm] Elliot: Order?
[6:01pm] Elliot: We are not allowed to argue?
[6:02pm] Dwarfmp: no
[6:02pm] Dwarfmp: you're disrupting the chat
[6:02pm] Jak_Atackka: Take it to PM....
[6:02pm] Elliot: I'm disrupting nothing!
[6:02pm] Kitkat: We tried that Jak - it didn't work
[6:02pm] Elliot: There's nothing to disrupt!
[6:02pm] Snowmane: Elliot, you're a great guy, but I am one step from kicking you myself.
[6:02pm] Snowmane: This is ridiculous.
[6:03pm] Elliot: I would advise to avoid that.
[6:03pm] Snowmane: Or?
[6:03pm] Snowmane: Sounds like a threat, and Rpeh....
[A reference to Rpeh's logic that he was above the law. Elliot is sadly unaware of the similarities they share.]
[6:03pm] You set a ban on *!*@ChatSpike-c0c80140.iplsin.sbcglobal.net.
[6:03pm] You kicked Elliot from the chat room. (Snowmane)
[With Elliot's banning, the conversation ends. Kitkat never got banned, because she is normally a sweet person to everyone, so I was willing to let her stay, because she is never a disruption.]
PM from Elliot:
[6:04pm] Elliot: Right fucking now
[6:04pm] Elliot: You better fucking unblock me
[6:04pm] Snowmane: Elliot. You're disrupting the channel. I am within my rights, and you'll remain blocked until you cool off.
[6:04pm] Elliot: Unblock me now
[6:05pm] Elliot: I swear to fucking god
[6:05pm] Elliot: UNBLOCK ME
[6:05pm] Snowmane: No. You're banned until you can prove to me that you're calm. Until then, you're a disruption, and you're banned.
[6:05pm] Elliot: Fuck you
[6:05pm] Elliot: FUCK YOU
[6:05pm] Elliot: A blatant abuse of whatever powers were mistakingly giving to you
[Sorry, but I don't see how using a ban to end an argument that would have persisted was a misuse of powers.]
[6:06pm] Elliot: Unblock me
[6:06pm] Elliot: Can you not read?
[6:07pm] Elliot: u
[6:07pm] Elliot: n
[6:07pm] Elliot: b
[6:07pm] Elliot: l
[6:07pm] Elliot: o
[6:07pm] Elliot: c
[6:07pm] Elliot: k
[6:07pm] Elliot: m
[6:07pm] Elliot: e
[6:07pm] Elliot: r
[6:07pm] Elliot: i
[6:07pm] Elliot: g
[6:07pm] Elliot: h
[6:07pm] Elliot: t
[6:07pm] Elliot: n
[6:07pm] Elliot: o
[6:08pm] Elliot: w
[6:08pm] Snowmane: I did read it. And, no. I am NOT unbanning you, so spanning a PM isn't helping.
[6:08pm] Elliot: Unblock me!
[6:08pm] Elliot: You are NOT permitted to block based on information in a PM
[6:08pm] Elliot: SO you are in a clear violation of rules
[6:10pm] Elliot: Okay
[6:10pm] Snowmane: It's in the Public chat now, and even without that, one was coming anyways, because you're throwing around unprovable accusations for the sake of arguing, after being warned by myself and Dwarf..
[6:10pm] Elliot: What's in the public chat?
[6:10pm] Elliot: Did you QUOTE me?
[6:10pm] Elliot: Are you fucking serious?
[6:11pm] Elliot: I AM NOT THROWING AROUD UNPROVABLE ACCUSATIONS
[6:11pm] Elliot: HOW ABOUT YOU FUCKING BLOCK KITKAT
[6:11pm] Elliot: UNLBOCK ME OR I WILL FIND ANOTHER WAY IN
[6:11pm] Snowmane: I didn't quote you. I just said you were being rude, and I wasn't going to unban you.
[6:11pm] Elliot: I WILL find a way in.
[6:11pm] Snowmane: Ok. Whatever. I am sure you'll be banned again.
[6:12pm] Snowmane: If not by me, then by someone else for evading the ban
[6:12pm] Elliot: It's nice for you use to the tools I taught you
[6:12pm] Elliot: Now UNBAN me
[6:13pm] Snowmane: You're banned for at least the evening to cool off. If you're polite tomorrow, I will be more than happy to give you another chance.
[6:13pm] Elliot: Tomorrow
[6:13pm] Elliot: Are you fucking kidding me?
[6:13pm] Elliot: I would advise you to revoke this mistake you're seriously about to make
[6:13pm] Snowmane: I am dead serious. Unless one of the admins changes it or tells me to revoke it, that is how it is.
[6:13pm] Snowmane: Is that a threat?
[6:14pm] Elliot: Is everything a threat with you?
[6:14pm] Elliot: How about people grow some damn balls and actually DISCUSS things
[6:15pm] Elliot: It's your decision.
[6:15pm] Elliot: You will have to live with it now.
[6:16pm] Elliot disconnected from the server.
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